In this heartfelt presentation, Sandi Brown from JOY FM shares her inspiring journey of healing and overcoming deep inner struggles. Despite being a leader in ministry, Sandi courageously opens up about healing from past wounds and mental health challenges. Together with her former counselor, Dr. Michelle Caulk, they dive into the power of vulnerability, the courage to face our fears, and the true freedom found in God’s unconditional love and authentic relationships.
Inspired by their book, Healing Out Loud, this discussion is for anyone who has ever felt stuck, unsure, or afraid to let others see their pain. You’re not alone, and there is hope for healing and a life full of joy. Let’s walk this path together.
View this video and other JOY FM videos on the JOY FM YouTube Channel.
Read this Presentation Instead
Sandi Brown:
So, we all know that there’s what other people see of our lives from the outside looking in. And what we see and feel of our lives looking from the inside out. Right? There’s, you guys know, Joy FM. And what you may not know is that I’ve been married to the love of my life for over 35 years. We’ve got three kids, they’re amazing. I love spending my mornings with you, those that listen. Those of you, you have some work to do that, don’t listen. But we laugh. I see Jesus working in your life every day. I saw him working in my life every day. I’m going back to five years ago now. And that’s what you see and it’s truthful and it is really, really good. God has blessed me in so, so many ways.
And then there’s, in my life and maybe in yours, what’s not seen by other people. And five years ago what I was feeling and seeing that no one else saw, looked like, “I feel really broken inside. And no one knows because, can you say that I love Jesus and I encourage people every day, hundreds and thousands of them, and still feel like I’m on the outside looking in of something that I know he offers? I know people think they like me, but they don’t really know me. And if they knew me, know they wouldn’t like me either ’cause I don’t like me. And can you love God and not like yourself?” I mean, that was the dialogue in my head 24/7, all the time, five years ago.
And what I want to say to you today, there’s no amount of good things going on in your life that can tend to open wounds that have not been tended to. And I want you to hear me say two things right off the bat. Number one, if any kind of wrestling on the inside is going on in your life right now that you’re afraid to say out loud or that you feel shame about, or you’re not even sure it’s okay to feel that way, I see you. And you’re in a safe place. And what if there’s a path to better and a path to healing that you’re not even sure you believe exists. Or maybe your head believes it, but your heart is convinced it’s not for you. If any of that resonates, you’re in the right place. And we’re going to share some of our story today in hopes that we can all get some traction to better in healing, because I believe it’s possible for you and for me.
Michelle Caulk:
Yeah. So I would say when Sandi came to me for counseling initially, what she was saying about this feeling of being incongruent between her heart for the Lord in the way that she was viewing herself is really common. And I’ve heard elements of her story over the past 15 years of being a counselor. And so, you’re normal.
Sandi Brown:
Woo-hoo! Yes.
Michelle Caulk:
So, this is what I’m saying. And you are all our normal as well, if there’s some parts of Sandi’s story that have sparked a recognition in you as well. So our very first conversation, if you remember, it was over the phone. You were checking me out a little bit, which is quite okay. But we talked a little bit about warning lights. And you had recognized, as you shared, that there was just something going on that you couldn’t quite put your finger on at that point. But you knew that it had outlasted its stay.
And so what I presented to you, Sandi, and this is for all of you as well, is there are things going on in our lives that we can pay attention to as warning lights on a car. And it can either be the low gasoline, the low fuel indicator, it can be the dreaded check engine soon light, which who knows what’s going on with that. That always makes me want to panic and pull over by the side of the road. But really what that is is, we’re just kind of paying attention about what’s going on inside of us. Where are the warning lights that’s telling us maybe there’s a place where we need to ask somebody to come alongside of us? And so, it took quite a bit of vulnerability for you.
And vulnerability, I think that as a word, is out there quite a bit. We hear a lot about vulnerability. And I think just to clarify a little bit about what vulnerability is and it isn’t, so would you agree that true vulnerability is not necessarily posting to Instagram or TikTok? Yeah, that’s a one-way vulnerability that’s just kind of like, “Hey, like what I’m doing. Like my dance moves. Like my thoughts here.” And so, maybe that’s not true vulnerability.
True vulnerability, I think that Sandi brought and that we’re going to ask you to consider too, even today where you’re at in your own vulnerability, that’s really giving someone else the opportunity to see you. Just as Sandi said, she said, “I see you.” And kind of taking a risk that something may be returned, if it’s comfort, if it’s prayer, if it’s encouragement.
But vulnerability, guys, it always comes with a risk. We would say that vulnerability is very risky, and it also comes with the Godly purpose. And so, there’s always hope to invulnerability. There’s a hope that you’ll be received okay. And Sandi, you took a huge risk in being vulnerable with me and through the book. And I’m curious if that was just a super easy process for you. You just woke up one day and you’re like, “Today’s the day I’m going to be vulnerable. Let’s do this.”
Sandi Brown:
Yeah. So, I talk for a living, and yet was paralyzed with fear to say some things out loud. Because who wants to say you’re struggling or who wants to let someone get in? And I think at the root of it was, I was afraid of being rejected. Because if someone really, really knows you, the risk is then they’re going to reject you. And I didn’t know that then, I just felt like it was a scary, risky thing to do. And you add the layers on that you are well-known or that you’re in ministry, visible ministry, it added just a lot of shame, like, “Why haven’t I been able to figure this out? I’m 50 years old and I love Jesus. And I am in ministry and leadership. And there’s clearly something wrong with me.” So the layers, there were lots of reasons to not be vulnerable.
So I think Michelle had asked me, “What was the tipping point? Why did you decide you want to reach out and be vulnerable?” I think it was risk reward. I mean at the end of the day, we’re intelligent people. And in leadership, you fix problems, and at the end of the day, nothing was going to change if nothing changed. And I started to see that there was a risk not only in sharing, but there was a risk in not. And it seemed really discouraging to me to live decades more the way I had been living. And so while there was a risk in saying something, there was also a very real risk in nothing changing.
And I think I had to start to view it that way to go, “Okay, if I do nothing, nothing will change. Am I okay with that man? Man, no. I believe God has something for me, I just don’t know how to get there. And I’m not okay with staying the same. Am I okay with just going to all the people that love me and risk being rejected?” I was not ready for that yet either. So, I found somebody who had just moved to St. Louis, who did not know of Joy FM, who did not know me, and committed to her day one, I’m going to be honest. And either she’s reject me, which just means I save money, cause I… You know. Sorry.
Michelle Caulk:
True story.
Sandi Brown:
Sorry. But it was low risk. We were not friends, we had no relationship. So, she doesn’t like me. Eh. Then at least time I had confirmation of what I thought was true, which that I was broken. So, I laid out the risk reward and it seemed like a low risk to go, but I wanted to go in and give it the best shot of happening and commit that I will be completely honest. And there were many sessions where we sat in silence because I couldn’t even put words, and I usually have no problem with words.
But what if the risk is truthful, but there is a reward that’s also truthful? Which is that the only way better is going to happen is if you do something different than you’ve been doing. And that might start, it will start with being honest and allowing someone to come in, as risky as it sounds, and get a peek inside, pay attention to the warning lights that are going off. Something’s going on. And I’m going to be honest in discovering even if I don’t know what it is yet, what it is.
Michelle Caulk:
Yeah. And for the record, Sandi, I liked you when you were paying me, and I like you still when you’re not paying me.
Sandi Brown:
Woo! That’s awesome.
Michelle Caulk:
It’s all good.
Sandi Brown:
That’s awesome.
Michelle Caulk:
So I think we all have, as Sandi said, our turning points are tipping points where we realize that something is not quite right. And so, I’m going to just share a metaphor because counselors speak a lot in analogies and metaphors. I think there’s a special course for that. I don’t know.
But just to illustrate, there’s two cups that we might carry. And one of them is full of the hard, painful stuff, the events that have happened, the harder emotions like grief and sadness and depression, anger. And then we also have, by God’s good grace, kind of a good stuff cup. And that’s the joyfulness of being in the presence of the Lord. It’s the joyfulness of being in a good friendship. It’s the good stuff that happens. Watching your nephew or your grandkid run around in the soccer field, whatever, kind of fill those two cups. And yours might look like a Starbucks PSL coffee cup. I don’t know. It might look like a big glass teacup,
Might look like one of those giant Stanley cups that are really in style right now. And the thing too is that there’s really no comparison about what’s in your cup and what’s in everybody else’s cup. Your experience and your emotions are yours, and that is the piece that we and get to offer to the Lord, and get to offer to one another in this place of vulnerability.
And really what we worked through quite a bit, was to look very truthfully at these two cups because both exist alongside of each other. And that’s where kind of the weird stuff happens. What we did is we took a really honest look about what was in those cups. And what could we make space for more in the joy cup, the good stuff cup? And begin to address and heal with Jesus some of the stuff that was in the bad cup stuff.
Sandi Brown:
Yeah. And I didn’t realize what all I was carrying in my cup, to be honest. I knew that there was dysfunction in my home when I was little. I knew that my dad left, I knew that he rejected me in every way. I knew that my stepdad that came into the picture then was harsh and mean and hurt me. And I knew all of that, but I also knew that was then, this is now. And I’ve done so many great things now, and God has done so many great things now. Surely the balance is going to tip in my favor. Right?
What I didn’t realize is that I was still emotionally tethered to unprocessed business. Because it wasn’t just what had happened, it was how those things had shaped my mind and my heart. I didn’t realize at five, that when my dad didn’t love me the way that I needed him to love me, and I wished he could, I didn’t know how to frame it up any other way than, “Well, wow. Why can’t he love me? What’s wrong with me?” And so, that was what I latched onto, that there was fundamentally something wrong with me. And my dad knew it and I knew it because he left and he rejected me.
And then when abuse comes into the picture as well, I didn’t know how to frame it up any other way other than, “Yeah, here’s another person that says they love me and yet that really hurt. And I feel responsible and I feel dirty. And I feel that I’m always going to be this broken.” And that’s what was still in my life. The events had happened and were gone. And a calendar heals nothing, time and space heal nothing. And I didn’t realize there was the truthfulness of pain still very real ’cause I had never shared even some of the experiences with anybody. So there was no one to help bring comfort and reframe, which is one of your words. I love the reframing word, for counselors.
Michelle Caulk:
It’s good.
Sandi Brown:
But to speak truth into shame. So I was not only carrying memories, which I didn’t even think about, which is why I was so frustrated with myself, like, “Why would I still be affected today by something that happened literally 40 years ago? That’s so lame of me. Get over it, Sandi.” And again, there were the occurrences and the pain and then there was the shaping of my mind and heart that was very real.
And what it took was, and the invitation into healing, healing begins in realizing my cup is full emotionally. And I didn’t even realize it. But once I had somebody who could speak truth and say, “You’ve got about a hundred different open tabs on your computer, Sandi. No wonder you feel exhausted and overwhelmed and you don’t even know what. Let’s address each one. Let’s bring them up, let’s be honest about it, let’s invite the Holy Spirit to tend. Let’s look at the anger, let’s look at the betrayal, the rejection. Let’s look at shame. Let’s look at truthfulness.”
And that’s what healing is. That’s what healing is. It is dealing with the gunk in the cup and then saying, “God, would you fill me anew with truth and healing?” And he uses vulnerability in that process. I honestly don’t think I would’ve been on a journey any other way.
Michelle Caulk:
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, and I think there, Sandi, what you’re illustrating is that abundance doesn’t start. It doesn’t start with being awesome, it doesn’t start with being altogether, it doesn’t start with being self-sufficient. Sorry for those of you that are recovering self-sufficient people like myself. It doesn’t start with being perfect. Right? We know that there’s only one person who walked the earth that had that perfection. It doesn’t start with being a counselor or a church member or a pastor. It doesn’t start with being a mom or a dad or a grandparent or an auntie or an uncle or an employee. None of these roles, and none of these things are where it starts, where abundance and joy starts.
I think it really starts with this idea that we can’t fill our cup on our own. We just can’t. We can’t. We can’t fill our cup on our own. Healing is found in these really trusted vulnerable relationships. And of course, with Jesus. And Dave already mentioned this verse, but just to read it in the Amplified version, John 10:10 B, “I came that they may have and enjoy life and have it in abundance.” And it says, “to the full, till it overflows.” And when it overflows, the good stuff cup overflows in the presence of Jesus, that’s where we get this joyfulness. And so we kind of spoiled the end of the story, but that’s what it is.
But there is a reason why our book has so many chapters. And it’s just, I think because, and also the title, Healing Out Loud, you’ll notice there’s an I-N-G. At the end, it doesn’t say healed out loud, because living in this abundant place, it does mean that God in his presence, helps us not lack for anything, because he offers himself. But yet it’s ongoing, it’s healing.
And there’s still stuff that surfaces. I’ve been through counseling, there’s still stuff that surfaces for me over time. And I’m trained in this. I can reframe until the cows come home. And so, I think that’s a bit of an ongoing process for you too, Sandi.
Sandi Brown:
It is. It’s healing. And I simply want to wrap up by saying this, that it’s possible. To go from a place, and we don’t have time to share all my story. I would love to, and feel free to reach out to me anytime offline. But I know what it feels like to hurt so bad and to feel like you can tell no one, and fear of rejection. And I totally get all of that. And I am tasting what freedom tastes like. And it is so good. And that’s why I took the risk and we took a risk in writing a book and putting it out there. I’m not interested in telling my story. We all have painful stories. I’m not interested in that. What I’m interested in is more healing for myself and from you. The abundant life. And healed is when we stand face to face with our maker. That’s healed in his presence, his fullness of joy. There’s no sorrow, no grief, no tears. That’s healed.
Today, we are in a broken world. There’s brokenness, there’s hurt that’s been done to us. We carry hurt. That’s of our experience. And then there’s our healer who walks with us. This is what healing looks like now. Right? Embrace all of it that you can. Right? The invitation to start to be vulnerable. What you might need most is what you might fear most, which is allowing someone to really know you. Because the only thing that tackles that fear of rejection is acceptance. God’s unconditional love and someone else going, “No, I do see you and I’m going to stay with you anyway.” And showing up. So, this is healing. We’re doing it together, until we’re healed and we’re face to face.
Michelle Caulk:
Yeah. So to ask you a few questions for you to carry from our talk today, maybe throughout the day, maybe as you continue to pray about what is going to surface up for you in our time here throughout the day. You’re here, great, great first step. And you have an open heart to receiving what the Lord has for you today.
How are you doing? It’s a very honest question. And oftentimes, we kind of brush that off to say, “I’m fine, or, “My left knee really hurts. Maybe I need some surgery for that.” And we all go, “Oh, okay, that’s cool. I hope that works out well for you.” But to be able to answer that question honestly with one another, that’s a big deal. And that’s the first step to vulnerability.
I think what we’re not suggesting is to just go ahead and throw off everything and be vulnerable with everyone that you see, in order to move towards the healing that you need. But who could be a safe, trusted person for you? And they may be in this room, they may be otherwise. Just that you’ll be able to talk to a little bit, start that conversation.
And I think my other question is, what do you feel like you’re carrying today? And you may not be able to name it, but I bet the Lord can. I bet he knows what’s going on in your heart and in your life in a way that maybe you’re not quite sure that you can put a finger on it today.
And what are you desiring more of to be in your good cup? Is it this abundance? Is it this joy? Is it this lightness? Is it more time with Jesus? Whatever that is, think about what you want more of in your good cup.
And so, we would love for you to have a copy of our book at the bookstore. It really is a conversation from both sides of the couch, but it is really an offering for you. It was an offering to the Lord and it’s an offering to you. As you read a little bit of Sandi’s story and then also kind of coming in and hearing. It’s counseling in a book sort of, for like 15 bucks, so it’s a really good deal.
Sandi Brown:
Good deal.
Michelle Caulk:
It’s a lot less fun than what Sandi invested in. Sorry, counselors. I’m so sorry. So, okay. Use this book in counseling with your counselor. How about that? That’s a good thing. So Sandi, would you mind praying for us?
Sandi Brown:
Yeah. Can we pray? God, I pray, Lord, my heart today was just to set a tenor and tone, Father, of invitation that I believe is your heart, to step into whatever you’re inviting us to do. So, Holy Spirit, I pray that you invite us clearly and that you speak to the fear that would counter what you would have for us, Lord. Ignite something in us that looks like hope, courage, and a step forward. God, we love you. In Jesus name, amen.
